Text #2: “Talking Joe”
(i) Source:
Contributor: Molly Fagan
Informants(s): Akilah R. and Kinsey H.
Semester/Year: Spring, 2021
IU Bloomington
(ii) Text:
MF: So were you guys part of any clubs, or student organizations or anything? I’m just curious, because sometimes they have their own kind of informal rules, and they can be interesting.
AR: So us and a couple of other students had our own little camping “club,” but it was totally unofficial, so like not an IU club. Everyone in it was from IU, but I don’t think that counts for your question.
MF: That’s okay, I’m sure you guys have your own folklore, same as them! Are there any sort of, I don’t know, unspoken rules you guys followed? Like where it’s suddenly awkward for no apparent reason when someone messes up and breaks one of them?
AR: I’m trying to think…
KH: You do that a lot! [laughing]
AR: Hey! [reaches over to fake slap Kinsey].
KH: Umm, wait, okay yeah there’s something! We had this tradition that they do at a lot of summer camps, and like Girl Scout camps sometimes where we’d pass around a “talking stick,” except it’s not a stick. It’s an old G.I. Joe doll, and we’d pass him around one at a time when we wanted to share stuff around the campfire that’s serious, but do it in a funny way. If you want. It’s like permission to speak, and you’re only supposed to talk when you’re actually holding it.
AR: Yeah, if you’re not, then you’re just not supposed to talk. It’s kind of like a confession, or you can just say anything you want really, so long as it’s not mean or something. No one in our little group had ever done that, and we just, you know, automatically know you’re not supposed to use talking Joe for throwing shade at real people. But there was this chick that we let tag along with us for one of our weekend campouts, and so of course we let her participate in our nightly tradition. Only problem was, instead of using him to complain about how crappy school was going, or that one of her professors was a bastard, or like complain about how shitty America was, she decided to legit start poking fun at another girl in the group, the one who invited her. She did it in a goofy voice and moved him around into funny positions, just like she saw all of us do. Except she did this and was saying mean things about someone who was actually there!
KH: It was SO awkward, and none of us knew what to say. We all just silently sat there, and then she kind of looked confused when no one reacted or laughed. We just sort of kept going to the next person and acted like it hadn’t happened, which isn’t how real life works. Eventually she asked one of us if everything was okay, and they had to tell her that while talking Joe gives you the power to have everyone listen, there are still some things you’re just not supposed to say, but it’s one of those things you’d assume she’d know.
AR: Yeah, I don’t think she came back after that. It was just too uncomfortable. It wasn’t like she was saying the worst things, but poking fun at someone’s habits and like things they don’t realize they do is kind of messed up, and that just wasn’t us.
MF: So if you hold “Talking Joe,” you’re, um, supposed to use him to act out how you feel about something? Almost talk through him in a way?
KH: Yeah, that’s pretty much it. It’s supposed to be funny, but you can talk about serious stuff at the same time. It’s like this weird kind of comic relief, but also, I don’t know, simultaneously depressing?
AR: It’s only depressing if you don’t do it right. Like if you’re talking about the president, which back then it was Trump, you can make “Talking Joe” stand that same weird way Trump does, or act like him. It’s almost like satire.
MF: Wow, that’s a really interesting variation on the whole “talking stick” thing, but I guess I never thought about how it could be abused.
AR: Yeah, we actually still do that even at the occasional party, though now that we’ve both graduated we don’t party AS much as we used to, but still a decent amount. Even if we don’t have Joe with us, we’ll still try to do the same thing to get a laugh out of everyone. But yep, that’s pretty much the main thing I can think of to answer that question. So yeah, I think everyone should do something like it because it’s really fun!
(iii) Texture:
Akilah and Kinsey are both close friends, and this shines through in their interactions in both this and the following story. The ribbing they give one another in the beginning (complete with mock slap) lends the following text a kind of companionable, “you are there” sort of energy, allowing the audience into their friend circle temporarily. They hardly interrupted one another, and their ability to “read” each other likely smoothed the alternating timing of their comments as things popped into their minds throughout the interview. They played off one another throughout, and this is evident when Akilah and Kinsey disagree slightly over how “depressing” the material their tradition so often draws upon is, and they’re not afraid to state their differences. There was no sense of conflict or tension, only of friendly disagreement. This conversation had a much more serious tone than their “dumb roommate” story because it dealt with humor gone wrong, and the uncomfortable feelings that accompany social transgressions. These emotions were highly evident through their facial expressions and their emphasis on feelings of awkwardness. Still, the telling was full of life and color, and the strangeness of using a G.I. Joe as an interactive talking stick certainly captured my attention.
(iv) Context:
Who created/performed the text- Akilah R. and Kinsey H.
Members of the audience- Myself
Location/timing- Griffy Lake, spring semester 2021
Both Akilah and Kinsey decided to go by their real first names, but chose to use only the first initial of their last names because they liked the sense of partial anonymity this gave them, even though their stories are very distinctive and can’t easily be mistaken for anyone else’s. I couldn’t get a clear answer for why exactly, but that’s in fitting with their somewhat eccentric personalities. I don’t know either of the girls terribly well, but that didn’t seem to faze the two of them in the least. They both graduated in 2019, and currently share an apartment together. I interviewed the two of them outdoors at the edge of Griffy Lake, and the atmosphere was very relaxed, the weather pleasant. This, combined with their love of the outdoors, may have lent a greater sense of immediacy to their description of their old “talking Joe” tradition than if I had interviewed them indoors. They had no concerns about being overheard, and because the subject of the story is fairly innocuous, they told me that they would talk about their tradition just about anywhere, but only if it came up. The camping club they used to have with a few other IU students fell apart once everyone graduated, so they don’t have much cause to bring it up. At parties, this tradition is sometimes spontaneously resurrected so as to introduce others to the novel concept.
(v) Interpretation:
This is a fascinating example of humor as a tool to discuss or air difficult subjects in a group setting, and their twist on the classic talking stick allowed the speaker to communicate his or her feelings through it in a “safe,” enjoyable way. “Talking Joe” allows for a kind of clever play through which the person in possession of it can perform their own feelings about the world and their place in it. It’s almost like a proxy for themselves, an anthropoid figure that can be manipulated in a way that a classic talking stick simply can’t. The movement of the figure draws the eyes of the audience to “Joe,” and away from the face of the commentator, perhaps reducing any residual nerves they may have had in regard to speaking in front of the group. The speaker is traditionally encouraged to use a silly voice, or at least a voice other than their usual speaking voice so as to play up the humorous aspect of their performance. Psychologically, this probably has a sort of “safe distancing” effect by using the doll as a 3D canvas to project themselves onto, or more likely, through. Using a different voice is a potent aural marker that tells the audience they are in a different pocket of the world, at least for as long as that voice is in use. The fact that “talking Joe” was frequently used by club members to voice their political and societal concerns would have allowed for a sense of control (at least in that moment) over those huge forces that seem too powerful for any one person to handle. The club members’ dislike of the 45th president could also be played out by turning the doll into Trump, allowing them to manipulate him and literally bend him to their will. Here, the breaking of the unspoken rules relating to speech the group considered off-limits provides an interesting look into the double-edged nature of humor. The transgressor was treated to tense silence, and was not invited back into the group because they violated this and used the power of the doll inappropriately to attack someone within the group itself. She manipulated and voiced the doll the same way as the club members, but she bungled the most important part: the content.